Misconduct

Shot Out

I wanted to call this post "Upon further review" but the DetNews used that headline before I could. Oh well.

A wedding caused me to miss the game live but my DVR let me catch the game's highlights and it's hard to talk about the game without mentioning two things.

Ville Nieminen's hit on Brett Lebda happened first but, to me, somehow seems less important.

The game's end is the big thing. Doug Weight scored on St. Louis' second shot and Dan Cleary was stopped on Detroit's third but it wasn't as simple as it sounds.

Detroit goalie Dominik Hasek stopped Weight's shot and slid backwards into the net. The call on the ice was "no goal" replay reversed the call, as the puck did end up in the net.

What could have gone overlooked is that the puck did not drop from Hasek's equipment and cross the goal line until after it was called a no-goal at ice level. The call on the review seemingly ignored that the play was blown dead before the puck crossed the line.

Red Wings head coach Mike Babcock didn't comment on the goal after the game but after the review, his lips could be read saying "How the hell was that a goal?"

Cleary's chance to tie it ended up being equally controversial. St. Louis goalie Jason Bacashihua made the initial stop but slid into the net. Replay seemed to show that the puck went into the net with him but by the time he got up, the puck was in the crease, and that was the call that stood.

As I mentioned in the forums, the Cleary call is almost understandable, just not after the Weight goal.

The calls just added insult to the injury that happened earlier in the game. Nieminen hit Lebda from behind early in the first period. Lebda's face caught one of the metal stantions and he collapsed to the ice, bleeding.

Nieminen was ejected for the hit but it will be added to the list of incidents that seem to have plagued the NHL lately.

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User Comments

The Wings get another chance to leapfrog over Nashville and I'm gonna miss it. Game time is 2:00 and I'll be at a wedding, since the game's not on FSN my cable box doesn't even show it as being broadcast in Lansing. I'm gonna be so p*ssed if my guess of the channel it's on is wrong.

Posted by YzerFan19 on 3/24/2007 at 8:58 AM

 

I don't see this game as being televised by any of the networks. I've checked my Comcast cable listings in the Flint area.

Posted by skyguy52 on 3/24/2007 at 1:59 PM

 

Ooops .... its televised on cable Fox WJBK ..... Go WINGS! <img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/suspect.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":suspect:" border="0" alt="suspect.gif" />

Posted by skyguy52 on 3/24/2007 at 2:16 PM

 

This is f*cking bullsh*t.........every time we play this team (St.Louis), they try to hurt players because they are out of ther playoffs. I wish Chelios would've shown his old self and beat the living sh*t out of the Nieminen!!

I hope Brett is OK! He looked like he could be injured badly. Detroit needed a tough guy and didn't go and get one! I'm so fnnn p*ssed right now! What the F*CK!!!

Kick their asses Wings! <img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/suspect.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":suspect:" border="0" alt="suspect.gif" />

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 2:32 PM

 

What I hate to see from Detroit is that they have taken their foot off of the gas pedal trying to preserve something for the playoffs! One thing though.... It doesn't f*cking work. Get back to the basics, play some kick ass hockey and play one game at a time! Where in the F*CK is the coach!

Come on Babcock, do what you need to do, put the fire on their asses! PLEASE!! <img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/suspect.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":suspect:" border="0" alt="suspect.gif" />

Go Wings.

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 2:37 PM

 

I see how Dropper feels about the hit, but what about the rest of you?

IMO, that was no different than the checks you see 10+ times a game. MAYBE it was a 2 minute boarding call.

But Lebda turned at the last minute and put himself in a vulnerable position.

This is another case of the punishment being based on the injury results.

Honestly, look at the hit (NOT the aftermath) and tell me that deserves a five minute major and a game misconduct.

If you can, I'll accept that we both just have our team allegiences and the truth is somewhere in between.

I just hate to see a good guy (I don't know his style of play because he hasn't been here long, but he seems to have a glowing personality) like Ville Niemenen get labled dirty for a hit that resembles so many others that get no notice at all.

Posted by STL FANATIC on 3/24/2007 at 2:38 PM

 

Are you kidding me? Where is the D! Man, this looks like another blowout on the tire of this team. Truly I love my Wings, but damn, where is the heart in this team!

Rough, this is rough!

Go Wings.

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 2:39 PM

 

Blues broadcast reports that Ledba is being taken to Detroit Medical Center, but is awake, alert, and fine. He does have a concussion.

Assuming the concussion doesn't leave lingering effects, that's good news.

Posted by STL FANATIC on 3/24/2007 at 2:39 PM

 

I see how Dropper feels about the hit, but what about the rest of you?IMO, that was no different than the checks you see 10+ times a game. MAYBE it was a 2 minute boarding call.But Lebda turned at the last minute and put himself in a vulnerable position.This is another case of the punishment being based on the injury results.Honestly, look at the hit (NOT the aftermath) and tell me that deserves a five minute major and a game misconduct.If you can, I'll accept that we both just have our team allegiences and the truth is somewhere in between.I just hate to see a good guy (I don't know his style of play because he hasn't been here long, but he seems to have a glowing personality) like Ville Niemenen get labled dirty for a hit that resembles so many others that get no notice at all.


Get F*cked you joke. If I could see you face to face, you would never forget me. As well, go to your website and post your whimsy, who gives a sh*t beliefs. Your team has nothing and has had nothing and will have nothing.

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 2:42 PM

 


I see how Dropper feels about the hit, but what about the rest of you?IMO, that was no different than the checks you see 10+ times a game. MAYBE it was a 2 minute boarding call.But Lebda turned at the last minute and put himself in a vulnerable position.This is another case of the punishment being based on the injury results.Honestly, look at the hit (NOT the aftermath) and tell me that deserves a five minute major and a game misconduct.If you can, I'll accept that we both just have our team allegiences and the truth is somewhere in between.I just hate to see a good guy (I don't know his style of play because he hasn't been here long, but he seems to have a glowing personality) like Ville Niemenen get labled dirty for a hit that resembles so many others that get no notice at all.


Get F*cked you joke. If I could see you face to face, you would never forget me. As well, go to your website and post your whimsy, who gives a sh*t beliefs. Your team has nothing and has had nothing and will have nothing.

Unreal.The only part I'll respond to is the insults to my team. We're working on beating you for the third straight time. We've been a force since Murray took over, and we're prepped to be a force all year next year.

Posted by STL FANATIC on 3/24/2007 at 2:47 PM

 



I see how Dropper feels about the hit, but what about the rest of you?IMO, that was no different than the checks you see 10+ times a game. MAYBE it was a 2 minute boarding call.But Lebda turned at the last minute and put himself in a vulnerable position.This is another case of the punishment being based on the injury results.Honestly, look at the hit (NOT the aftermath) and tell me that deserves a five minute major and a game misconduct.If you can, I'll accept that we both just have our team allegiences and the truth is somewhere in between.I just hate to see a good guy (I don't know his style of play because he hasn't been here long, but he seems to have a glowing personality) like Ville Niemenen get labled dirty for a hit that resembles so many others that get no notice at all.


Get F*cked you joke. If I could see you face to face, you would never forget me. As well, go to your website and post your whimsy, who gives a sh*t beliefs. Your team has nothing and has had nothing and will have nothing.

Unreal.The only part I'll respond to is the insults to my team. We're working on beating you for the third straight time. We've been a force since Murray took over, and we're prepped to be a force all year next year.

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 2:49 PM

 

When a team (St. Louis) has nothing to lose and has had nothing to lose since the beginning of the year, you can only talk about what you might have next year. Until then, keep the trap shut and don't stick up for your dirty players (Niemenen), as we all know he is and has been a long time.

Detroit will rock in the playoffs, so go and play some Golf with your buddies.

Go Wings

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 2:55 PM

 

I'm just so p*ssed right now. Lebda is one of our best D-Men and that slug of a player knows this. Give the guy 5minutes and a game misconduct... doesn't sit well with me. Clearly a cheap shot and we all know it. High elbow and full check, yeah that was an accident.

Another thing? Why is this jackass from STL coming into our forum and put his smack on what is clearly dishonest. What a lousy person to do such.

Go Wings.

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 3:06 PM

 

I haven't spoken a word of smack, nor said anything that would make me the names you've labled me.

First off, I've been here before and know Yzer from another board. I was here for a previous Wings game, invited to stick around and talk hockey. I decided I'd come back for Blues-Wings games.

I disagreed with the play, but obviously I'm a Blues fan. I wanted to see what the Wings fans felt. All I've gotten is your opinion. You strongly disagree with me, but you've done so in a way that doesn't leave me valuing your opinion much.

And I'd honestly hope I Wings fans would be intelligent enough to understand that I can take strong pride in my team at all points in the year, regardless of whether we'll be advancing to the playoffs--especially when the team has played at such a high level for such an extended period of time. Yes, I'm forced to look to next year, but there's no reaon I shouldn't be allowed to be excited about next year.

I (and I never thought this would happen) was actually hoping the Wings would end up ahead of the Nashville because I'm tired of the sudden attitude the Predators fans have developed. But maybe some Wings fans still have the same one.

Posted by STL FANATIC on 3/24/2007 at 3:17 PM

 

Well, we certainly don't want to lose you as a forum member then do we? Let's be real for a minute STL fan. When Detroit faced Calgary in the playoffs a couple of years back, Niemenen was a member of that team. He was one of the dirtiest players in that entire series. High sticking Yzerman, crosschecking from behind whenever possible, and overall a dirty playing menace during the entire series. I remember wanting the league to take action against that F*CK, but did not. So, when you tell me you know all about your so called intelligent, decent and overall outstanding player like him, I'm calling you on your lack of knowledge of the game, and overall self respect to be in this forum with sh*t spilling out of yer mouth.

So, in short........ Get F*CKED Jackass! You don't know sh*t.

Go Wings.

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 3:29 PM

 

Well, we certainly don't want to lose you as a forum member then do we? Let's be real for a minute STL fan. When Detroit faced Calgary in the playoffs a couple of years back, Niemenen was a member of that team. He was one of the dirtiest players in that entire series. High sticking Yzerman, crosschecking from behind whenever possible, and overall a dirty playing menace during the entire series. I remember wanting the league to take action against that F*CK, but did not. So, when you tell me you know all about your so called intelligent, decent and overall outstanding player like him, I'm calling you on your lack of knowledge of the game, and overall self respect to be in this forum with sh*t spilling out of yer mouth. So, in short........ Get F*CKED Jackass! You don't know sh*t.Go Wings.


I actually told you I know very little about his style of play, only his personality. I'll take your observations into account now.Doesn't change the fact that I don't see the play in question to have been dirty at all.You however are terrible at communicating with fans of other teams, and continue to devalue your opinions with your unnecessary namecalling.

Posted by STL FANATIC on 3/24/2007 at 3:36 PM

 

<img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/suspect.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":suspect:" border="0" alt="suspect.gif" /> I'm a power forward, what else is there for ya. God does love you though. Beat it!

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 3:48 PM

 

After the second, we looked a little more competitive. Bertuzzi getting in the mix pretty good too. Hopefully we can find the net a few times in the 3rd period. I though I saw some vintage #44 getting into the groove today, so this period should be pretty interesting in that regard if all else fails, like the past few games considering.

Go Wings!

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 4:00 PM

 

Just thought I'd add that the Blues broadcast just reported (I'm 99% sure I heard right) that Niemenen went to the hospital to check on Lebda.

Perhaps his style of play isn't one you respect, but I'm telling you, his off ice personality is one of much class.

Posted by STL FANATIC on 3/24/2007 at 4:26 PM

 

Just thought I'd add that the Blues broadcast just reported (I'm 99% sure I heard right) that Niemenen went to the hospital to check on Lebda.Perhaps his style of play isn't one you respect, but I'm telling you, his off ice personality is one of much class.


Perhaps he doesn't want the league to review his hit on Lebda. My other question is this; Does he go to see Lebda after the game if he is not penalized for the rest of the game? No one can say for sure what he is doing, but the actions were clear to see. Back to the bottom line is the truth of the tale, he made it clear that he went to the hospital.If I'm generally sorry and don't care what people think, I'm quiet in my visit and ask that no one know. As far as class, well he didn't come over to dinner last night! You must have him over often.And I have the feed from St. Louis unfortunately, so I hear what you have been hearing. No need to repeat it for your own personal satisfaction.Go Wings.

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 4:36 PM

 

Okay, WTF happened in this thread? I haven't seen any of the game but, STL, we all know St. Louis teams do no wrong in your eyes, you don't have a lot of credibility when it comes to that. Glove Dropper, your response to him is absolutely unacceptable on this site.

I'll comment about the play later if my DVR worked.

Posted by YzerFan19 on 3/24/2007 at 5:00 PM

 

Okay, WTF happened in this thread? I haven't seen any of the game but, STL, we all know St. Louis teams do no wrong in your eyes, you don't have a lot of credibility when it comes to that. Glove Dropper, your response to him is absolutely unacceptable on this site.I'll comment about the play later if my DVR worked.


I realize in the eyes of others that's how my credibility is, but it's not actually true that I feel nobody in St. Louis can do wrong.But regardless of that, I wasn't trying to convince anyone. I stated my opinion, asked for other input, that's all.Anyways, good game.Wings dominated the third period.That shootout was something else with those goal reviews. But it looked like they got them both right. They definitely got the Red Wings NO GOAL correct. It was a little harder to tell about the Blues GOAL.But I have to think the guys in Toronto were pretty hesitant to call those against the Blues after jobbing them out of two goals and essentially the game aganst Ottawa a few days ago.

Posted by STL FANATIC on 3/24/2007 at 5:06 PM

 

Yzerfan what do you know, I step out to sea for a week and WWIII breaks loose. I missed the game but I will tell you we need to get it together! 0-2-2 in our last four, unacceptable <img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/suspect.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":suspect:" border="0" alt="suspect.gif" />

Posted by SYfanSD on 3/24/2007 at 6:16 PM

 

Hey,

When a guy comes into this forum after a cheap shot was given to Lebda, to which I know the player hitting him is a tried and true cheap shot artist, and the STL Fan jumps in with "He is a genuine good natured person," or something similar, I had a good few words for him.

And after I drop the bomb on his hockey knowledge with the real accountability of a known player, he can't just leave the forum and continues to try to re-establish his credibility. I understand some folks want to come into the forum and interact with us during the game, but I'll have none of this guffaw after a serious injury to a Wing has occured.

I was a little crude at one point, <img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/suspect.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":suspect:" border="0" alt="suspect.gif" /> but I'm sure he'll live. Sure a more conservative approach can be implied with future considerations, but for now, I'll stand by my statements thus far.

Go Wings.

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 6:47 PM

 

Collie Campbell just said on HNIC that it was a good hit, he just happened to hit the partition and then the ice...don't expect to see a suspension.

Posted by Stormo on 3/24/2007 at 6:53 PM

 

While I didn't like the hit by Nuuminem on Lebda, (Brings back ugly memories of the hit on Draper by LeMeiux) and don't much agree with STLFanatic's spin on the hit, I'll give STLFanatic credit for sportsmanlike conduct on this forum. Everyone has a right to support their team and I appreciate a different view point.

The BLUES played a good game, BUT the score SHOULD have been about 5-2 WINGS ...... It wasn't so everyone get over it. Did anyone see/hear the interview of Chelly at the end of the 1st Period? Chelly put the blame squarely on the WINGS for underperforming.

As for my opinion of the Wings performance over the past 4 games, I believe it is more than a matter of bad breaks, bad bounces, bad officiating. On the contrary, I've seen an abundance of opportunities by the Wings, not converted. I've seen an abundance of loose pucks not picked up by Wings, both defensively and offensively. I've seen an abundance of Wings take un-smart penalties. I've seen an abundance on Wings lose one-on-one battles along the boards and in the corners.

Put all of that together with several pings of goal posts, and you have MEDIOCRE peformance by WINGS, against teams whose only REAL purpose is to feel good about BEATING the big Bad Red WINGS. <img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/suspect.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":suspect:" border="0" alt="suspect.gif" />

The Reality is that the Wings needs bounces to go their way. But on the same token, they need to take control of the play. They have to be as hungry, or hungrier, for the win. <img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.png" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":D" border="0" alt="biggrin.png" />

Posted by skyguy52 on 3/24/2007 at 6:59 PM

 

That's where some players live, with the "I can get away with this hit," and they go through deliberately with malice. It's bullsh*t to adress it any other way. If the league doesn't give a suspension, still doesn't make it right. And if Lebda would've been paralyzed, all of you would have forgotten him in a few years, his life altered forever.

Some say it's part of the game, and you would be right, but some players are dirty without reflection.

That's my personal opinion and hope Lebda makes a speedy recovery. <img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/suspect.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":suspect:" border="0" alt="suspect.gif" />

Go Wings.

Posted by Glove_Dropper on 3/24/2007 at 7:11 PM

 

My DVR didn't hurt me today, I just caught the replays of the hit and the shootout.

The hit wasn't clean but was far from the worst we've seen this year. I'm surprised that Campbell said there wouldn't be a suspension with the crackdown that's been going on as of late. I'm willing to bet Nieminen's history played into the ejection.

The shootout was a joke, though. The last replay that the Detroit feed showed of Weight's goal has the puck dropping out of Hasek's equipment and onto the line as the official waves off the goal from the side, then it goes across the line and in. Yes, it eventually went in, but after the puck was dead. In nomal play, that would have been whistled long before Hasek had a chance to slide back that far and let the puck drop out.

If Weight's goal is allowed to stand, then Cleary's should have as well. The rule does not state that the puck has to be visible in the net anymore. If the last time you saw the puck was at the bottom of the goalie's pads and then those pads end up in the net, you're allowed to say that it's a reasonable conclusion that the puck was also in the net. The officials on the ice and in Toronto chose not to.

It sounds like it never should have gotten to that point, though. I haven't watched the game yet so I don't know.

As for the drama here... This particular thread is in the Red Wings section of the forums but fans of all teams are supposed to be welcome here. I disagee with STL 100% here and because this is a Wings board first, he shouldn't expect his argument to carry much weight, but he has the right to make it and shouldn't get slammed for it.

Posted by YzerFan19 on 3/24/2007 at 7:26 PM

 

I agree with you YzerFan ..... the replays I saw of Weight's goal, show the puck dropping out of Hasek's pads and then crossing over the line, well AFTER the official, AND the official having a clear view, waved off a goal, ending the play. How that could be ruled a goal is beyond me. On the other end, it appeared to me of being a case of the puck in the goalies pads being well across the goal line BEFORE the goalie moved forward and the puck dropping out onto the goal line (in a crazy manner), AND well before the officials blew the whistle, ending the play. This was absolutely a case of the WINGS getting the Sh*tty end of the stick. <img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/suspect.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":suspect:" border="0" alt="suspect.gif" />

Posted by skyguy52 on 3/24/2007 at 8:09 PM

 

After reading Hasek's comments about looking over and seeing the ref waiving off the goal, it made me rethink it.

Yzer, you're ABSOLUTELY right it would have been blown dead in normal play, but the shootout is always unclear. Usually it's when things come to a complete stop. But that's still not clear.

And on the non-goal, I'll need to see it again. It's definitely possible that the puck wasn't in the back of his pads but in the front when Cash slide in the net. Then when he slid forward it went to the back. But I'm not sure that happened because of how it flipped out of them. Basically, I just need to see it again. Still, the rule seems to be you have to see it over the line, you can't assume.

Personally, I'll take the extra point. I'll take a break in those kind of calls finally going the Blues way. But two things definitely come out of this.

(1) The shootout either needs to be dropped or clarified. There's too many questions about when the play is actually dead. I think the refs need to completely wait until the play is dead, then blow the whistle (but they need to stay on the side of waiting, during play they always blow too quickly), then make their signal. Personally, though, I'm not a fan of the shootout at all, but that's another story.

(2) The video review and decision process needs to be clearer, and not just during the shootout. Equipment needs to be mandatory. Teams need to be able to call for a review (even if just one or two per game) in case the refs and video judge don't call for a play that should be reviewed (Blues had this happen a couple of games ago against Ottawa). And then, it needs to be decided what the refs are too look for. If they see a puck in the net, but they don't see how or when it got in the net, is it a goal? If it seems clear the puck is in equipment that is in the net, can they call it a goal?

There's too many things that are up in the air right now, and it's ticking off a lot of fans. If the rules were clearer, some of that would be solved. Not all of it, as if they had assumed the puck was in with Cash's pads, a lot of Blues fans would be ticked (I need another replay to figure out if I think it actually was in or not, and right now I don't have the replay). But it would still be a big improvement.

One other thing. I also think it's time to change the rule about when the ref blows a play dead. First off, I think it's time to make 3 seconds a standard for this thing.

As it is right now, refs are supposed to blow the puck dead when they lose sight of the puck. Well plenty of times they just don't see it and they stop a play when it's still loose. So I think they need to be instructed to count to three seconds when they lose sight of it, and then blow it dead if they still don't see it.

In the same vein, I think if a goaltender covers or catches the puck, refs need to count to three seconds before stopping play. This complements what I just said about losing sight, because this way when a goalie doesn't have it, but the refs think they do, it will be clear that they don't before they blow the play dead.

If the refs see that it was covered and a player smacks at the pads or glove and knocks it out, the refs can stop play or review it and waive off a goal if that was the case.

I'm just so tired of the quick whistle.

It robbed the Blues of another goal against Ottawa a couple of days ago (actually, even with the quick whistle, the puck had still crossed the line already, but I guess there is that dumb intent to stop play provision), and it very possibly cost the Wings a goal today. The Wings goal was less obvious, as the whistle was blown while it was in Cash's jersey, then the puck dropped down, a Wings player grabbed it, pulled it over, and put it through Cash's legs--if the whistle wasn't blown, the Blues may have responded differently, maybe not.

Anyways, so that I'm not just here, discusses the Blues with my one-sided opinions, what are your guys thoughts on those things?

Posted by STL FANATIC on 3/24/2007 at 8:14 PM

 

I didn't see the HASEK interview yet about the WEIGHT goal. It should be interesting, particularly since, HASEK was one of three who actually were there, in the best position to know what REALLY happened (WEIGHT, HASEK, and the OFFICIAL).

As for the CLEARY shot, I still say it appeared to me to be a case of the puck being over the line while still in the GOALies pads, though the PUCK was NOT visible until the goalie moved forward, and the PUCK dropped down from pads onto the goal line. In my mind, the puck was over the goal line, in the pads of the goalie -- WHICH makes it a GOAL.

And STLFan, while I HATE to admit it, STL played a good game, and SOMEHOW came out with a WIN, but count how many scoring opportunities the RED machine had in the third Period, that weren't converted, and you can easily see, how WING fans feel.

On the other hand I can see where STL fans probably feel they were the better team today and deserved the win.

ANAHEIM DUCKS are the next target. Hope the WINGS have the bad bounces out of their system. ANYONE FOR DUCK DINNER?? <img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/suspect.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":suspect:" border="0" alt="suspect.gif" />

Posted by skyguy52 on 3/24/2007 at 8:31 PM

 

Still haven't had a chance to see the rest of the game but from what I'm reading around the Web, the Wings should be happy to have gotten the point that they did get.

As much as I can complain about the final result and how it was reached, I don't want to take anything away from the Blues. They've played really well since their coaching change and always play up to Detroit.

To touch on the shootout one more time, I guess my frustration isn't so much with Cleary's goal not counting as it is with the Weight goal being allowed. The rules technically allow for both of those calls to go in Detroit's favor, which I would love to see but can't expect. The Cleary call is just so frustrating after the Weight call. Like St. Louis gets the benefit of the doubt but Detroit doesn't. Either one alone probably wouldn't feel like such an issue but back-to-back like that is just frustrating.

I agree about needing better standards about when the puck should be blown dead but I'm not sure it's as clear-cut as that. And I'd love to see how many times a situation has come up like the Weight goal, or was there no precedent in making that decision?

I'll capture some of the video (probably tomorrow) and post it for anyone who missed it. I think it'd be interesting to see what people with no rooting interest have to say.

Posted by YzerFan19 on 3/24/2007 at 9:31 PM

 

its because Detroit is extremely cocky. They believe they "dont have to try" against the teams that are at the bottom of the barrel. Let me back this up with some statistics. Detroit battles hard and cleanly sweeps the 2 games away from Nashville because they know that Nashville will be tough. Detroit later goes on the road trip thinking that Vancouver and Calgary will be easier than Nashville, wrong answer, smoked in both games. Now we come back home and the wings are thinking "phew, those two losses are out of the way, now for some free points". Smoked again by the two of the non-post season contending teams. I think its time for the management to bitch the players out. Im sick of this sh*t.

Posted by choyer on 3/25/2007 at 12:05 PM

 

I watched the video on ESPN.com, they show the replay of the cleary shootout attempt. In my opinion, that puck was about 2 inches over the goal line underneath Bacashihua's pads. He moved his left leg up a few inches and then brought his pad up off the ice, the puck fell just above the goal line. If this went into Video Review, the goal should have been allowed. It was a poor ref decision to allow the goal with no review, especially after the St. Louis goal was allowed. They could have at least equalized the bad calls by allowing Cleary's attempt. I'm not arguing whether or not it was "over the line", but I believe Detroit should have been given a video review to determine the outcome correctly. I think ref's need to be more consistent on this issue.

Posted by choyer on 3/25/2007 at 12:11 PM

 

I tend to agree with you. I've been through this too many times since the'02-'03 season, the year after the Wings won their last Cup. Since the Nashville series, 0-2-2, is not what I call a play-off ready performance. I have concerns for all the reasons I posted on the Red Wing threads. <img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/flagusa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flagusa:" border="0" alt="flagusa.gif" />

Posted by skyguy52 on 3/25/2007 at 2:30 PM

 

Just finished watching my DVR'd copy of the game. Once again, the Wings waited until the third to turn it on. If it really is a matter of them playing down to the opposition, then there's no reason to worry 'cause everyone in the playoffs is good so there's no one to play down to. I don't think that was the case yesterday, just seems like they're not clicking in general.

Bertuzzi looked a lot better, though, even his shootout chance was better than the one against Columbus.

And I captured the video for posting later. Re-watching the Nieminen hit again... Really surprised he was ejected. It was high but not to the head. DetNews says that Lebda hopes to be back against Nashville on Thursday, so that could have been a lot worse, too.

Rewatching the end of the shootout... Painful.

Posted by YzerFan19 on 3/25/2007 at 3:26 PM

 

I watched the video on ESPN.com, they show the replay of the cleary shootout attempt. In my opinion, that puck was about 2 inches over the goal line underneath Bacashihua's pads. He moved his left leg up a few inches and then brought his pad up off the ice, the puck fell just above the goal line. If this went into Video Review, the goal should have been allowed. It was a poor ref decision to allow the goal with no review, especially after the St. Louis goal was allowed. They could have at least equalized the bad calls by allowing Cleary's attempt. I'm not arguing whether or not it was "over the line", but I believe Detroit should have been given a video review to determine the outcome correctly. I think ref's need to be more consistent on this issue.


Here's the thing... It was reviewed. For quite awhile. Even after review, the goal wasn't allowed.

Posted by YzerFan19 on 3/25/2007 at 3:27 PM

 

And one more thing from the DetNews about the hit on Lebda...


Nieminen visited Lebda at the Detroit Medical Center."He apologized," Lebda said. "That was a class act on his part. I thanked him for that part. He felt bad."


While my opinion on Nieminen comes from previous acts and this doesn't make up for them, that was a classy move this time.

Posted by YzerFan19 on 3/25/2007 at 3:37 PM

 

Replace shootouts with alternating 2-minute 5 on 3 powerplays until a winner is determined.

I love it, let's get that goin'.

Good jorb guys.

Posted by Creamer on 3/25/2007 at 5:12 PM

 

Posted Image

To me, what this shows is that basically the review overturned not only the on-ice call of "no goal" but the official's decision of when the play was over. Basically, the "War Room" in Toronto got to say "No, you should have allowed this play to continue to see what would have happened." Can you imagine if that was the case during actual play rather than just in a shootout?

Posted by YzerFan19 on 3/25/2007 at 5:27 PM

 

Posted ImageTo me, what this shows is that basically the review overturned not only the on-ice call of "no goal" but the official's decision of when the play was over. Basically, the "War Room" in Toronto got to say "No, you should have allowed this play to continue to see what would have happened." Can you imagine if that was the case during actual play rather than just in a shootout?


That above angle there is the same as the new position of the goal judges at the Air Canada Centre -- who came up with that idea?

Posted by Creamer on 3/25/2007 at 10:20 PM

 

www.nhlshootouts.com has the video of the Red Wings shootout against St. Louis on Saturday, March 24, 2007. Does anyone truly believe that Dan Cleary's shot didn't cross the goal line?

Posted by nhlshootouts on 3/26/2007 at 12:04 AM

 

Apparently the officials thought it didn't. <img src="http://forums.detroithockey.net/public/style_emoticons/default/flagusa.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid=":flagusa:" border="0" alt="flagusa.gif" />

Cool site, I was wondering if there was a HockeyFights.com-like site for shootouts but hadn't taken the time to look.

Posted by YzerFan19 on 3/26/2007 at 12:10 AM

 

Right. Allowing Weight's Goal, (overturning the official who had an unobstructed view from start to finish), then turning around after extensive review, and disallowing Cleary's goal doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If the boys in Toronto did this, then questions of the current system, whether its working or not, need to asked and addressed. Cleary's shot, though NOT visible in the goalies pads, was CLEARLY over the goal line, BEFORE "CASH-IN" moved forward, and the puck dropped funny on to the goal line. For crying out loud, the whole world could see that. WHY didn't the Toronto wizards?

Posted by skyguy52 on 3/26/2007 at 12:50 AM

 

I just watched the Weight "goal." I'll watch the "no-goal" in a minute.

But I'm 100% convinced the Weight "goal" was not a BAD call. It was a BORDERLINE call, but afterwatching the two replays and seeing where the puck comes out of Haseks pads and when during his roll it comes out, the puck appears to be crossing the line (but under Hasek's pads) at the exact moment the ref is making his signal.

Thus, it's the EPITOMY of a BORDERLINE call. It went the Blues way. Could have gone either way.

Now, on to the Cleary shot...

Okay, after looking at that one a few times, I gotta say I think there's at least a 80% chance that was in the net. But there's a bit of chance it was up higher in his pads and not completely accross the line. But this isn't as simple as the refs just being allowed to assume it was in as the Detroit announces mentioned is allowed this year. Because to assume, do you have to feel 100% or not? Perhaps the rule is clearer than that, but if it just says you can assume, then that puts the refs in a real tough spot.

I feel for both the refs and the Wings on that last one, because I think the puck was probably in, but I'm also not sure the refs can just completely assume it was and call it that way.

I'm just gonna take it as two borderline calls that went the Blues way. We haven't gotten many of those for sometime so I'll take them, but I do feel bad for the refs and Wings, because everything was done in the appropriate manner, and when calls are that borderline, someone has to feel shafted.

Posted by STL FANATIC on 3/26/2007 at 2:40 PM

 

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